Title edited: 2007 HoF Questions Continue

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Postby daisydo on Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:35 pm

scrapper chick wrote:
Grandmascrap wrote: It would be a shame to "resolve" the issue without it actually being resolved and have to start all over again. Get it ALL done at one time. I feel for these contestants, and I feel for CK, but honesty and integrity has to be restored to the scrapbooking community. The scrapbooking community is a much bigger community than the CKMB. It's ok if you want to ignore the problem--other's of us want it taken care of. This is where Brian originally posted his reply, so yes, it is the place to post on this subject.


I agree!! Letting the entire issue go and consider it resolved is like finding a drop of water on your bathroom floor---you wipe it up, thinking you've solved the problem. But come back later to find your entire basement flooded becaause of a broken pipe. Don't be satisfied that the problem is resolved after one attempt. Most problems aren't.

I also agree that the scrapping community is much bigger than just the CKMB...there are a lot of people interested in how this all pans out--scrappers (will they buy CK product again? Will they enter a CK contest again?), advertisers (is it worth it to advertise in a CK publication any more), and industry analysts (is this the final nail in the scrapping coffin?). The issue needs to be resolved completely before it will go away


Out of curiosity for your opinion, what do you consider an appropriate remedy to this situation?
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Postby scrapper chick on Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:05 pm

Out of curiosity for your opinion, what do you consider an appropriate remedy to this situation?

I'm not sure which situation you are referring to.

With regards to Bernadette-and any other HOF winners and Honorable Mentions-if they broke the photography rule, they should be DQd (as I said earlier...what's good for one, should be applied to all).

With regards to the 2007 HOF contest. A remedy is defined as something that counteracts or corrects. At this point, I feel that the 2007 HOF contest is diseased beyond all cure. Sadly...
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Postby LucyG on Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:32 pm

to the people complaining about the thread title being misleading ... could you honestly have thought a topic with the word "lawyer" in it ... this week, in this forum ... could have been about anything ELSE??

in any case, it's easy enough to back out as soon as you see what's being discussed, instead of posting a reply that brings it BTT.
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Postby BettyBoops on Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:33 am

I applaud AB's post and for bringing this to light. I was actually looking at the HOF issue today and asking myself the same questions...how could she have possibly taken those shots herself?

There are several other LOs I have questions about, too...when this whole thing blew up, I took a closer look at the LOs, but now I am going to really take a look again...

This is simply crazy...I can't believe Bernadette would try to tap dance around all of it...just come clean!

And I applaud AB's skill at breaking everything down so everyone could understand...

Yes, we thought this was all over, but clearly it isn't. I entered HOF 2007 hoping to get an HM, but no such luck. But, because it made me stretch, I now have some pages that are among my favorites.

I just this all gets resolved. I hope CK will be more vigilant and ask for proof that the photos taken really are the work of the entrants.

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Postby elah on Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:20 am

honesty
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Postby Oreosmom on Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:48 am

As a member who has belonged to this MB for a while, it makes me so sad that this place has changed so much... :(

I haven't had the desire to look in here much lately...I still read and check it out daily, however, my interaction with people has been mostly via PM's because this issue won't go away, even if it's VERY clear to me that CK is aware of it and doing what they think it's right...

Yes, I know it's my option to open a thread or not, but first, it all depends on the title and second, sometimes I have to skip so many that it's not worth it...

I will still be very much a part of this MB and will keep checking it out frequently, but I can't wait for this to be over with... :roll:

If anyone needs me for any reason that is not HOF related, I'm always glad to get PM's...!!! :D

BTW...I'm not commenting much, but I still look at all the LO's and cards posted...also, I'd like to give a welcome to all new members that come here to have fun...but it's hard now to tell the true reason why so many new people are here!!!

Just my 2 cents... :wink:

PS...I won't be checking this thread anymore so, if you quote me I won't see it...I'm soooo ready to move on and get our sense of humor back!!!
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Postby forestsister on Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:18 am

hm. i thought this was all really rather well researched. KC was the tip of the iceberg?? at least she was publicly 'honest' about the whole thing. this just makes the HOFer in question look like she's digging herself a hole!

how many other HOFers are suspect of the very same? i - admittedly - would be interested to read further investigative reports (because this was just so well written) on any other scrapbookers who have photos in question.

ya - it's all quite ugly. but who are we if we turn away and pretend none of it is happening? i again admit - i'm curious to see if there will be more disqualifications.
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Postby Anastasia Beaverhaus on Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:49 am

My apologies for not returning yesterday nor earlier today.

First, let me address those that questioned why I posted here and with a new name. This is my only account on the CK Message boards. I've read the boards here for quite awhile, though. And, I'm definately not new to the scrapping world. I posted on this board because this is where the previous thread were. This is also where Brian posted his statements previously regarding HoF 2007. Therefore, this (in my humble opinion) would be the most logical place for this most recent series of events.

Yes, the posts that lead to what I've researched and written are from another site, but it is all verifiable as being accurate. No quotes were taken out of context. I addressed each of these and kept my post to the business at hand. It was all done with the utmost respect for the parties involved, with no personal jabs. Just the facts, ma'am.

As for a screen name rather than my real name? Well, I doubt that "Whippet", "Betty Boops", "Scrapper Chick" or any of the other screen names on here are your real names. Why should I have to open an account as mine? Also, I do submit and have been published by CK as well as her sister publications, in addition to other scrapbooking idea books and magazines. Because others may (or may not) have falsified documents and have left a trail of conflicting comments, should I be chastised or "black balled" by the industry?

The second reason for posting here is because I e-mailed the information to CK. The first e-mail bounced back. I resent this to them with the other address that Cathy Smith (and thank you, by the way) listed here. I have not received a response yet. By posting here, I would have to assume that the powers-that-be will be informed of this thread. Whether they check the board or not, I'm sure that they'll be made aware of it.

And they should know. You see, we've seen nothing and heard nothing since the final statement regarding the disqualified scrapper. We don't know what has been done, what's being done, are they looking at each entry? Are they doing this on an honor system? If everyone signs their affidavits, will that be taken at face value? I would hope they learned from the first go-around that someone signing and saying they did the work themself, including the photography, does not mean that they did.

Bernadette just happened to be more vocal in her explainations than others. Initially, I didn't think much of it. But the more she talked, the more things didn't make sense to me, causing me to look a bit further. I wasn't the only one, I can promise you that. I just happened to have been the one that decided to take it away from a blog and bring it to the message boards.

And, I hope the CK is fully aware that scrapbookers are lawyers and doctors and accountants. We are factory workers, fast food servers, waitresses, store owners, professional photographers, computer software programmers, teachers, stay-at-home moms, and more. We would not accept the explaination of how this photo was taken from our children, so why should we just because it's HoF?

Anyway, that is why I'm here, that's why I posted on this board, and that is the reason that I posted what I did.

Now, there is further information. There was a response to another scrapper regarding the photos. We now know who took the photo, that the numbers are in sync with the mentioned photography company.

There were straight forward questions asked to Bernadette. She encouraged them, in fact, in her post. Unfortunately, she has not actually answered any of the questions. And that is not right. If she took the photo, as she has said, she should provide it. Provide it to CK, even. But, if it follows the numbers that I provided in the earlier post, just know that those numbers correspond to a professional photography company.

And her signature may be on an affidavit saying she took them.

And, claiming someone else's work as your own is copyright infringement, even if you bought the CD with the images after the rafting trip. That is punishable by law. If CK takes her word without investigating this further, they could also face legal issues.

So really, wasn't posting this a service to CK? It could eventually save them litigation time and dollars. Then again, if that photo was truly taken by Bernadette, she and they will know that everything was looked at thoroughly. It is the responsibility of the legal department to determine the results based on their findings. This post was an additional tool for them.

I'm sure I'll be back. I may even post a layout or something. :)

Respectfully,
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Postby iScrap on Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:47 am

I apologize for my prior post and I've deleted it. My comment wasn't about new board members in general at all (I still consider myself a total newbie) and I am sincerely sorry if I offended anyone.
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Postby Grandmascrap on Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Michelle, it's ok to express your opinion. I have the same reaction when someone "new" posts on the board I frequent if it stirs up controversy. You wonder if they are there just for that purpose. As you can see, I've been a member here for ages, but usually only lurk. This subject is very important to me though. I've beens scrapping for 12 years now, and CK has always been near and dear to my heart. I hope this gets cleared up quickly. I'm thinking CK may have to send out a THIRD afadavit to the contestants before they post any new winners. Please, contestants, just be honest and get this over with.
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